Considerations

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Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Considerations

Postby Kerry » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:07 am

Because of a registration glitch PathofLove emailed this to me to post here: It consists of a series of emails. I include them so that a reader can follow what's been happening.

Hi Kerry, I registered . . . so that I could continue communicating with you on the board, but you have not approved it yet. I don't want to wait any longer to respond to you, so I am continuing this communication now, to be transferred to the board if you see fit.

Thanks for the validation, encouragement and suggestions about clearing. You're welcome.

Re: "A lie is just a lie, it's a result produced." "It's possible to keep recalling a perpetration that you've ack'd because there's something else about it that is complete..." Yes! I found this very helpful, and it brought a lot a light to my process of breaking down where the incomplete is. It's almost never in the actual perpetration. This has allowed me to see myself in a new way, retroactively. I think it's called "remembering correctly." That's great. For example, whenever someone breaks an agreement with you they are setting it up to get caught for the broken agreement and hopefully, (if you're sharp enough), to get acknowledged for an earlier and similar perpetration.

Re: donating
Hmm. This is a tough one for me to communicate. There is a lot of work I want to do here--clearing, consultation, and the Abuse, Health, and Ideal Partner tutorials. I am excited about the truth I am finding on your website and in our communications, and I am excited about it being free. I don't know how you do it or why, but this "free"-dom has allowed me to experience something and say "yes" to something that I would have found barriers to had you been charging for it. There would have come the argument, "Is it worth this much money? Can I afford it?" When money is taken out of the equation, it gives me a chance to experience the value of the service without persuasion or coercion. And for me, it removes the entitlement, expectation, and obligation between the provider and the receiver. I have experienced before in expensive groups what I recognize now as an unconscious laziness in terms of my own work: "I have paid all this money, now what are you going to do for me?" Here, I am experiencing a blooming of my own initiative and motivation, and I truly thank you for letting me have this authority and responsibility. I thank you for choosing to offer this opportunity, and I thank the forces that have allowed you to do so. You're welcome.

I don't feel feel like donating right now. I want that to be clear. I want to donate when it feels right to, not because you remind me. I recognize that everyone has their tipping point, where free was okay, but now free is not okay, both on the giving end, and on the receiving end. i haven't reached my tipping point yet. All after, "I don't feel . . . now." was mind stuff, reasons your mind manufactured so as to not have to surrender to my support. I want to make it clear that your explanations have nothing to do with the truth. Your considerations are perfectly understandable; me, I couldn't/wouldn't give chocolates or flowers or whatever, because every other dude in the country was doing the same thing. I wanted to do it without being prompted. It was embarrassing to have to be reminded to acknowledge a loved one. I kept waiting for my natural acknowledgmentness to kick in, never did. The more you resist donating the more it consumes you, the more you become your position. It remains in the space between us. There's a communication model in which you set it up for me to say something, to make a suggestion, given that point of view we must ask what the genius in you is up to that you would decline my support. It could be said that you unconsciously set it up for me to remind you to donate, because you had yet to realize what a truly remarkable opportunity this is for you. What you can't see is that by supporting me/us you empower me in my relationship with you, in supporting you in manifesting your stated intentions. Two barriers to manifesting ones stated intentions come to mind: A resistance to acknowledging others, and to being supportable. I'm want to say, one way to complete this is to make a donation larger than you feel comfortable with, generosity to the max and watch what happens.:mrgreen:

It would be nice to know if there is an opportunity to acknowledge with in-kind donations. I like it when organizations have a "wish list" of services or products needed to run the place. It gives a different experience to acknowledge (and be acknowledged) with something other than money, and sometimes goods and services are available when cash isn't. More of the same mind stuff. I can see my invitation to donate pushed your button. Not to worry; if this issue is, as I suspect, the source of certain problems then we've done good work. Who else in your life would say they don't feel good because you never or seldom thought to buy them flowers?Cheers,
(as PathofLove)

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Kerry <admin@comcom121.org> wrote:

Hi PathofLove,

You're welcome.

Re: " I acknowledge that I feel pressure to remember firsts." Got it. For me it's similar to meditating, I go unconscious and find myself thinking thoughts, I then make myself wrong and get back on track keeping in mind to breath. With clearing it works whether you know or think it's working providing you're willing to communicate openly, honestly, and spontaneously. Eventual the stuff that's covered up by other thoughts will pop to the surface. Aim for first lie, theft, temper-tantrum, deceit, abuse, etc. and take what comes up.

Re: ". . . i don't feel badly about them" That's the objective. If you had been communicated with after telling your first lie, you would have been coached by a parent lovingly and then it would be complete. A lie is just a lie, it's a result produced. I had bacon and eggs for my sixth birthday and then I stole money from my dad's pocket. Neither result is bad nor should I feel badly. Both results are complete except for the memory but without the charge. You were supposed to have committed all the childhood perps you did so as to arrive at choice. If you make yourself wrong then you have to set up life to do it again and again, until you get that it was just a result, it's just what's so, so what! It was in fact necessary to your growth, to getting here. It's possible to keep recalling a perpetration that you've ack'd because there's something else about it that is complete, say, I forgot to ack my mom for the nice b-day breakfast, or that I gave the money I stole to a friend and have yet to be ack'd for being a generous thief.
Re: "I acknowledge I feel pressure from you to do the clearings in a certain way. I feel pressure to follow someone else's example that may or may not feel natural to me." Got it. Follow the format until you know that you're not hiding anything from anyone. I'll be able to tell from a clearing if you're operating in the here and now, in present time. As long as your intention is to empty your mind, the biggies, if there are any left, will pop to the surface. Quite often they come up during the day when say, I find myself being rude or short. Later when clearing (I've been clearing with one client 3-hrs-per-session every other week for 17 years) I'll remember that the incident was associated with an incident during childhood. In other words, for some incompletes it requires a similar present-day interaction to trigger the memory of the first time it happened.
Re: "Is the value of clearing an incomplete in feeling satisfied with the communication of it?" If you're not experiencing satisfaction after a post then you have yet to get to the biggie(s), the stuff your mind has hidden from itself. My experience is that I'm relatively in-integrity and so I no longer get the emotional lift from clearing an emotionally charge incomplete. I do need to continually acknowledged myself as to just how well life is working. We say, not that it's true, but we say it comes from clearing, telling the truth, keeping agreements, and cleaning up the messes. When I and my clients and friends look out upon the world and see the struggles most have, the kaka in their lives and relationships, their health and their less-than-aliveness, it reminds us that communication works. We joke and say that life used to be great when we could lie and deceive and blame and dismiss thoughts of guilt.
Re: "Is it okay to keep posting clearings every day as long as I find it helpful?" Absolutely. However, you might fall into the trap of feeling you have to use The Clearing Process just to please me. Pitfall: There will come a time when you won't acknowledge to me that things have been working smoother since our relationship began, that you've been manifesting some nice intentions, even creating some miracles, and then things started to fall apart. Yikes, what happened I've been doing everything right? A part of this will have to do with the fact that you forgot to bring us/me along with you, in the form of acknowledgments/donations. Donating because I'm reminding you is very nice, however, donating because you truly want to empower me in serving others is mo betta. The Teacher's Pay Conversations Project addresses the correlation between acknowledgment and sustaining the experience of love, health, and prosperity. From my perspective, what's happening economically throughout the world is perfect. Teachers have yet to teach the subject of acknowledgment and so they still have to beg for raises from citizens (former students) because they didn't teach their students to bring them along financially. Citizens, at some level, feel ripped off because they were able to con their teachers into passing them and therefore know that teachers are getting the salaries they deserve. I suspect things will work even better for everyone when teachers earn as much as plumbers.
Re: "Is it okay to address these things to you here or better to post on the board?" Mo betta the board, because others get value from our interactions. You could register again with a different user name so that others won't easily identify your Message Board posts with your clearings. It is important to continue clearing as though you don't know it's me "getting" them. My agreement is to not talk about stuff you clear in any other posting, so if you clear that you murdered someone don't expect me to know it or address it in a message. With aloha,

Kerry


On 9/1/2011 6:50 AM, PathofLove wrote:
Kerry,
>
Thank you for your response. It feels good to get a response. I have some thoughts and questions.
>
1. I acknowledge that I feel pressure to remember firsts. I feel like i can't know if a memory was a first or not. With a lot of my really early perpetrations, i don't feel badly about them, or i don't remember feeling badly about them. I don't feel the same kind of release when I write about them as I do when I share acknowledgmentonally charged or that I do acknowledgment. Which comes to my second acknowledgement:
>
2. I acknowledge I feel pressure from you to do the clearings in a certain way. I feel pressure to follow someone else's example that may or may not feel natural to me. I feel like you saying I am not getting enough value from my clearings because I am not doing them a certain way. I feel the most release from the incompletes that feel the most charged and that bother me the most, which are usually more recent. To me something isn't cleared if I don't feel any different afterward. Is the value of clearing an incomplete in feeling satisfied with the communication of it?
>
3. Is it okay to keep posting clearings every day as long as I find it PathofLoves it okay to address these things toPathPathofLoveere or better to post on the board?
>
Cheers,
PathofLovei
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Kerry <admin@comcom121.org> wrote:
>
Hi PathofLove,
>
That feels good.
>
You have a good start with your clearings. Re-read the instructions and sample clearing, the most value comes from recalling & communicating/sharing your firsts. I find that reading yours and others clearings trigger memories of incompletes I had 'forgotten."
>
Kerry
>
>
> On 8/31/2011 6:28 PM, PathofLove wrote:
Kerry,
>>
Thank you for your response.
>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
>>
PathofLove
>>
>>
>>
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Kerry <admin@comcom121.org> wrote:
>>
Hi PathofLove,
>>
Re: "Does a cord plugged into the wall represent actual integrity as to virtual integrity?" Nah, that point of view invalidates intention. It has to do with responsibility, integrity, and intention. Bottom line: It would be irresponsible of me to trust that you could manifest such a call without me having an experience of your integrity. More accurately: It would be irresponsible of me to trust that we could manifest such a call without me having an experience of your integrity. Notice that you went unconscious when you (per the instructions) read on http://www.comcom121.org/consult.htm " You must call from a corded (land-line) phone. If you are doing the consult with another you must have two corded phone instruments (cordless and cell phones are not allowed due to signal problems or possible battery failure)." —this suggests unconsciousness or even sneakiness, both indicators of integrity issues.>>

Cell phone/iPhone battery/signal-strength have a way of going wonky when one is close to telling the truth as to the source of his/her less-than-desirable results, it's an amazing phenomenon. It's just smart to eliminate as many variables (solar flares/electrical storms, etc.) as possible. The mind is incredibly powerful at protecting its point of view, its version of life's incompletes. Life and things work much better when the integrity between two is in. When something doesn't turn out as envisioned I always have to look and see if/where my integrity is out; it's too easy to blame the other, sooo, I do what works quite reliably (land-lines).>>

There's even a possibility of something breaking down if you were to say, call from a friend's house. For example: It doesn't work to lend a car to someone who doesn't have one (for dozens of reasons and one truth), because such a borrower usually isn't operating at the level of integrity it takes to handle an accident responsibly (zero inconvenience to the lender, arrange for the rental, ensure perfect body work—so as to not detract from the car's value when sold—and, paying the car owner's increased insurance premium for life). To lend a car could be an unconscious intention to set up a friend to possibly fail even more in life.>>
Please register (it's free) and log on to the Message Board for future exchanges, however, to do so, please do the two prerequisites first, The Clearing Process and the definition of responsibility.
>>
I've enjoyed our coms. Thank you.
>>
With aloha,
>>
Kerry
>>
>>
On 8/30/2011 3:51 AM, PathofLove wrote:
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
>>>
Thanks,
PathofLove
>>>
On Aug 30, 2011, at 5:47 AM, Kerry <admin@comcom121.org> wrote:
>>>
Hi PathofLove,
>>>>
You're most welcome. I've been writing for years . . . . :-)
>>>>
It's possible you haven't come across my favorites http://www.bigislandforum.org/forums/index.php — Potential Rumors and Community Blog. The whole forum is actually my blog, I use it to clear my mind.
>>>>
This has been my/our first full year (since our beginning in 1989) of not charging for our services, and relying on donations; as such, I'm still experimenting with how to present the free consultations, both person-to-person and via telephone. What's happened so far is I've spent a lot of time during a consult covering stuff that can easily be covered by the participant before the consult, stuff that needs to be addressed for communication to take place, so, after you submitted your request I've edited the http://www.comcom121.org/coapptf.htm. The added prerequisites serve as a qualifying interview so to speak, they assure me of a participant's intention to have a consult work. The definition of responsibility ensures that we are operating from the same definition during the consult (this creates a context for zero arguments). The Clearing Process empties the mind of many of life's incompletes—incompletes serve as barriers to communication between us. The difference in the quality of content during a consultation is quite noticeable with someone who has acknowledged life's perpetrations.
>>>>
To optimize our consult please follow the six steps and then resubmit your consult request and I'll email you my phone number.
>>>>
With aloha,
>>>>
Kerry


P.S. It appears that you made your appointment request via a cell phone (I could be wrong). In any case, a reminder, a consult must be done via a corded land-line phone.>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
On 8/29/2011 5:37 PM, PathofLove wrote:
Kerry,
>>>>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
>>>>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
>>>>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>>>>
Thanks,
PathofLove
>>>>>
On Aug 29, 2011, at 11:26 PM, Kerry <admin@comcom121.org> wrote:
>>>>>
Hi PathofLove,
>>>>>>
Thank you for submitting your telephone consultation appointment request form.
>>>>>>
Where do you live?
>>>>>>
Have we interacted before, if yes, what name have you used or what name would I know you by?
>>>>>>
With aloha,
>>>>>>
Kerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
On 8/29/2011 12:48 PM, PathofLove wrote:
The following data was entered in the http://www.comcom121.org/coapptf.htmform .
>>>>>>>

>>
>
>

User avatar
Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:32 am

Due to another registration glitch PathofLove emailed me the following, posted here for all to follow:

Hi

Kerry,

Where is it that you suggest to use a short username?--so I can know where I went unconscious. The suggestion was not from you in our emails. I feel like I'm going crazy; I feel afraid to call you on this; I feel like I've been punished for following the instructions as they were presented to me. Aaargh! The "nametadvicedivice must be on another web page. Thanks for pointing out that it's not among the TCP instructions. Thanks for sharing your uexperienceseinces like that usually get stored until enough have accumulated so as to blow up and then it's more difficult to trace where things turned.

So, I attempted to register with a shorter name, and it says the email address is already in use, which is from the inactive longer name that was deleted. I used a different address when I registered for clearing. More aargh. Would you please clear that email address? I don't have an easy way to delete a deleted user's email. Glad you had another one.
While I'm at it:

I registered for the Conversations in Health tutorial, but I haven't gotten a response from you. It's best that you stuck with one feature or tutorial, it gets too confusing for me. I'll check and see what happened to your registration. Thanks. You can continue to ask questions here.

The "Lies and Lying" link is broken on every page. Does it not exist anymore? Thanks for pointing it out. It's up and running again.

If all this frustration is because I haven't donated, then I'm headed to PayPal right now :) That's exactly how integrity works. When things don't go smoothly the mind offers up what it's probably about. That "donating" popped into your mind is perfect.

PathofLove

Kerry

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:09 pm

Kerry,

"I don't have an easy way to delete a deleted user's email. Glad you had another one."
To clear something up: I have to post as "Shidliwink" because the username "PathofLove" was lost or deleted. So I am posting on the Clearing Board and this Message Board under the same username. Let's ditch using the name"PathofLove"--no dissimulations! Also, I am uncomfortable at having the entire history of our communication posted on the board. I did not realize that it was here until today. Would you please remove the emails that were sent before I agreed to move our communications to the board?

"It's best that you stuck with one feature or tutorial, it gets too confusing for me. I'll check and see what happened to your registration."
I'm not in any other tutorial at the moment. Does participating in both the clearing board and a tutorial count as two features?

"It's up and running again [Lies and Lying Tutorial]." Hooray! More stuff to read!

Thank you,
Shidli

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:25 pm

Kerry,

Thank you for your feedback about donating and acknowledgement. I admit it was very hard to swallow, even harder because I know it is an issue with me and I don't want to be called on it.

"Two barriers to manifesting ones stated intentions come to mind: A resistance to acknowledging others, and to being supportable."
(Sigh) Yes, I have a well-thumbed volume on my internal bookshelf entitled, "Reasons Why I Don't Need to Acknowledge This Person/Organization/Situation/Universe/Self." It's a big, fat, heavy book--very well-written-- and I refer to it often. I would like to think that money is just one way of acknowledging what or who needs acknowledging. But what about verbal acknowledgement? Or service? The issue is really support, is it not? If I have been supported by the universe, then I acknowledge with support in return. If I want to be supported, then I offer my support--in the most appropriate way for the situation. Which is why you use the word "supportable." This is a hard word for me to take in, and I don't want to be "unsupportable."

What makes a person unsupportable?

Cheers,
Shidli

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Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:35 pm

Hi Shidliwink,

I don't have an easy way to delete a deleted user's email. Glad you had another one."
To clear something up: I have to post as "Shidliwink" because the username "PathofLove" was lost or deleted. So I am posting on the Clearing Board and this Message Board under the same username. Let's ditch using the name"PathofLove"--no dissimulations! Thanks. Whew!


Also, I am uncomfortable at having the entire history of our communication posted on the board. I did not realize that it was here until today. Would you please remove the emails that were sent before I agreed to move our communications to the board? Per your email, ". . . so I am continuing this communication now, to be transferred to the board if you see fit." I have a policy of no private conversations, in part because it's easier to trace a breakdown when there are witnesses. The problem is that we've had significant conversations that others need to know about when they try to follow this thread.

Re: "It's best that you stick with one feature or tutorial, it gets too confusing for me. I'll check and see what happened to your registration." I'm not in any other tutorial at the moment. Does participating in both the clearing board and a tutorial count as two features? It's a bit fluid. Let's complete what we have on the table first, then you can register for a tutorial and post on it's own password-protected message board.

Re: "It's up and running again [Lies and Lying Tutorial]." Hooray! More stuff to read! Got lots more if this stuff turns you on; there sure is a need for communication-skills coaches. :P

Kerry

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:30 am

Kerry,

"I have a policy of no private conversations"
I was not aware of that. If you have a policy of no private conversations, that policy needs to be clearly stated _before_ communication begins, and that it applies to all forms of communication with you. I don't have a problem with the policy, just that I didn't have the opportunity to become aware of it before I initiated communication with you. Now that all my private communication is out in public, I find I have no redress. I am not comfortable with the public posting of emails to you that I wrote before we agreed to move our communication to the board.

I agreed to move our communication to the board, which to me meant _from that email on._ I agreed without clarifying what exactly would be moved, so I let myself down in that respect.

I acknowledge that I feel violated. I acknowledge that it scares the bejeezus out of me to "stand up to you." This is exactly the kind of inter-relating violation that I typically sweep under the rug, and use as a basis for rejection, and subsequent withdrawal and/or "dumping". I acknowledge that I feel the urge to reject you and dump you and this website and this work, and sour-grape myself on to the next thing. I really can't do that anymore in my life. :cry: I need to be able to find a way to say, "Hey, something's not right here. I need to address it with you." I would love to be able to do that without the accompanying debilitating fear, but for now I am settling for getting it done at all.

Thanks for the forum to do this.

Shidliwink

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Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 am

Hi Shidli,

You're welcome.

Got it all. Valid point.

If you quote the specific sentences you want removed I'll consider deleting them (and the quote of them) however, all of our coms have been an essential part of our relationship and so my thinking is to not hide anything. Can you tell me what you're afraid of if others read the entire post?

Re: "I agreed without clarifying what exactly would be moved, so I let myself down in that respect." So, were you setting me up to find something to make me wrong? Seems if this incident wasn't upsetting enough that you'll have to intend a mo worse incident—yes? It's great that we "happened" on an incomplete so easily. Can you recall an earlier and similar incident, ideally the first?

Kerry

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:30 am

Kerry,

I acknowledge that I put off responding to your post. I acknowledge that I read your post, and enjoyed my feeling of validation without acknowledging our communication. Without conflict, the _urgent_ need to communicate receded. I acknowledge that I felt pressure to respond as soon as possible, and guilt that I waited. I acknowledge that I feel overwhelmed by the volume of response in me to your post, and I feel overwhelmed in general by the opportunities to respond (incompletes) that accumulate each day.

"Valid point."
Validation feels really good.

Re: privacy:
"...my thinking is to not hide anything." I do not wish to hide, and I was not hiding when I wrote to you at a semi-private email address. If I catch myself hiding, I can choose not to hide from the present forward, and I can reveal to others what I was hiding in the past, but I have no right to reveal another's communication that occurred with me while I was hiding, if the other person was not aware that I was hiding when that communication took place. You were hiding, and now you have exposed my communication along with your own, as if I were hiding, too. The first post I wrote to be knowingly posted on the public board was the one that began, "Hi Kerry, I registered . . . so that I could continue communicating with you on the board, but you have not approved it yet. I don't want to wait any longer to respond to you, so I am continuing this communication now, to be transferred to the board if you see fit." I have the right to request that you remove from the public board any communication that came before that composition, not including the attached replies and responses. That is what I intended when I agreed to move our communication to the board. It's not that I don't see the value for others in the history of our communication. When I weigh the potential value of what could be learned from the first few emails against my right to privacy, my right to privacy is clearly the more fundamental.

"Can you tell me what you're afraid of if others read the entire post?"
I can't identify anything to be afraid of. When I first came to this site, I was not ready to post on the board, and so I chose to introduce myself to you and your services privately first, through your email address provided. When I now read the entire history on the public board, I feel the _intent_ with which I wrote the first few mails, and I feel when the intent shifted a few emails later as I realized it would be better to communicate via the board, and that I felt ready to do that. Reading, I can feel when my awareness shifted and began to encompass the space of the board and the public-ness of it. It feels wrong to feel that first, private intent while on the public board. It doesn't belong there.

"So, were you setting me up to find something to make me wrong?"
Yes! I am using you to re-create situations similar to ones in my past in which I made choices that resulted in negative consequences for me, in order to give myself an opportunity to effect a different outcome. I set others up to make them wrong to activate my sense of what is right in me--boundaries, needs, right perspective. It's difficult for me to pick up on my "right" without dramatic juxtaposition of wrong. In order to see the white, I need black next to it. The wrong is the finger pointing to the moon. There is no need to focus on the wrong or the person made wrong; the point is to respond to my own right. My pattern is to make others wrong, activate my right, and then not respond to my right. I make myself wrong to match the other's wrong. Or, I do what I need to do to make the other right. This does not feel good anymore.

"Seems if this incident wasn't upsetting enough that you'll have to intend a mo worse incident."
There are some boundaries and needs that I am aware of enough now, that all I need is a gentle nudge to remind myself to respond in my best interest. I'm sure there are issues that I am so determined to make myself wrong on, that only a hugely upsetting incident will make me sense my inner right. It's true that I have the power to create great drama when I engage with another person who also needs drama. I don't want to create drama anymore, so it's important for me to only communicate with others who also don't want to create drama; who can communicate consciously, or who are willing to explore what it means to communicate consciously with me. Such is my state of inner oblivion that I cannot promise to not make you wrong again. Learning here and communicating with you is helping me overcome my fear of responding honestly when I activate my sense of right. The point for me is to come to understand the importance of responding honestly _no matter how small the incident_. If I don't respect my sense of right in those fleeting moments, I will create a bigger, more upsetting incident to force my understanding. (It is this responsibility of constant response that is overwhelming to me.)

In fact, there is so much more to respond to that I feel overwhelmed right now, and am torn between writing more and just stopping for fear of writing too much. Every sentence sparks so much response, that a ten-sentence post by you gives me fuel for days of thinking and hours of writing. And then, when you reply--even more to respond to--and what if it's more than ten sentences?? I don't have enough time in the day to communicate all the responses. I can imagine this gets better with time and practice. I may be experiencing a bottleneck from withholding responses and then not having enough conscious communicators to share the sudden overflow. I'm stopping now.

Gracias,
Shidliwink

User avatar
Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:11 am

Hi Shidliwink,

So glad to hear from you. Got it all. Thanks. You have an excellent understanding of the communication process, the effects of incompletes and withholds, etc. Your reply was easy to follow. I appreciate your ack of your delay in responding. That’s exactly how a perp such as that is supposed to be handled.

Re: “I am using you to re-create situations similar to ones in my past in which I made choices that resulted in negative consequences for me, in order to give myself an opportunity to effect a different outcome.” That’s exactly how this process works. That which causes you to dump me will/would be what causes you to dump others or they you; in coaching jargon, you will/would discover your barrier to communication mastery.

Re: “I cannot promise to not make you wrong again.” Got it. So perfect. Such an irresponsible promise is part of what causes recidivism (parolees returning to prison). Parole boards virtually intimidate a prisoner into lying, saying, “Oh yes. I’m going to go straight. No more stealing/drugs etc.” Mo betta they reply as did you. “I don’t know. I believe I’m going to go straight, however I can’t even trust that I’m telling you the truth now; I believe I am but I’ve lied to myself before. I can tell you I honestly believe I intend to go straight but I don’t want a lie here to have undesirable consequences.”

Re: “My pattern is to make others wrong, activate my right, and then not respond to my right.” Yah, that’s our survival mechanism. Unless one commits to monastery living (playing a small game with little/no interactions with abusive people, or opportunities to break agreements), at least as far as I can tell, over a period of 37 years, mind doesn't stop making others wrong. At best, in personal/close relationships, I can be trusted to ack when I’ve made another(s) wrong.

Re: “I can imagine this gets better with time and practice.” Yes, what happens is together we are co-creating a new communication model, one that you can use with conscious people, and fall back to “talking” with everyone else. The most important things are to keep sharing perpetrations and to ack what’s in the space that needs acking. It’s great that you discovered the effects of withholding (keeping another incomplete) beyond the 72 hour NLT reply agreement.

Re: “In fact, there is so much more to respond to . . .” Got it. Thanks. Reread and complete any incompletes between us, else, a single incomplete becomes the foundation for breakdowns between us, and between us and everyone.

Muchas aloha,

Kerry

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:53 pm

Kerry,

Thank you for your responses. It feels good to feel like I have expressed myself well, and then have that acknowledged from the other side. When I feel that I am responded to with respect and integrity, then I know that I have communicated with respect and integrity.

You did not reply to anything I wrote about the board posts. It does not feel good to not be responded to. This is still an incomplete for me in the space. I ack that I feel the need to be responded to. I ackn that I feel selectively ignored--only the good parts are responded to. I ackn that I feel all kinds of ideas coming up about what I did wrong to inspire silence, and now I have the burden of trying to work both sides of the board to figure out what I did wrong. I ackn that I feel "difficult" and I feel guilty about that. This is my response to silence. Why did you not respond?

"the 72 hour NLT reply agreement."
What is this, and where is it posted? It sounds familiar, but I can't remember where I saw it, and I haven't been able to find it again on the site.

Shid

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Kerry
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Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:54 pm

Hi Shid,

Re: “You did not reply to anything I wrote about the board posts.” You didn’t ask me to so I got it as more mind stuff. One either communicates to be right/make another wrong, or to complete an incomplete. You’re more than welcome to make this “THE” incident. The more you want to be right about deleting it, the more I’m inclined to think this a self-righteous position you have found—to what end? Once you tell the truth as to what’s bothering you about this the sooner you can disappear it. However, inclined to think that this drawn-out exchange over a position now requires that another(s) know what we are talking about. It could very well be the straw . . . in which case others need to know its source. I suspect you have another such accidental/unconscious incident in which you said, or another said to you, ". . . to be transferred to the board if you see fit." There's something here that needs to be ack'd such as a withhold or perpetration. Please assure me that you are not in therapy or that you are not addicted to a mind-altering substance. Whenever breakdowns such as this occur always look for the out integrity; the self will cause confusion so as to get caught. I'd look for a pattern that you brought into our relationship, one that doomed me from before the beginning. Very pit-bully.

Re: “It does not feel good to not be responded to.” Yes, I get that, per, my, “If you quote the specific sentences you want removed I'll consider deleting them.” :shock:

Re: “the 72 hour NLT reply agreement." Good catch. It’s on About ... The Spouse Abuse Tutorial. You by-passed this agreement by coming in via the Message Board. I’ve added the following to the Message Board Registration Form: “You are agreeing to reply to a reply to your post within 72-hours, or, if not, say in the event of a prior agreement, or a long holiday-week-end, that you will let the poster know by-when (NLT -- Not-Later-Than) you will reply. This agreement acknowledges that keeping another waiting or guessing as to when you will reply, keeps them at effect and incomplete, this agreement supports both courtesy and the expected ebb and flow of a conversation.”

Kerry

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:13 am

Kerry,

I acknowledge that I recognized a "pit-bully" quality in some of your replies to others' posts when I first found this site and read everything.
I acknowledge that I recognized a masochistic or punishment quality to some of your replies.
I withheld these things from you thinking I would acknowledge these once everything else was out of the way--I guess these are the things that are in the way.
I acknowledge that I am baffled and horrified that I would initiate communication on this site if I heard that in the way the moderator/coach/owner communicated.
I acknowledge that I set myself up to receive the same treatment I saw on the boards.
I acknowledge that I used you as a trigger to recognize my own boundaries and needs and to practice responding to them.
I acknowledge that it does not feel good that I am acknowledging withholds and perpetrations in our communication but that you are not.
I acknowledge that I need to hear your acknowledgements of withholds and perpetrations.

I acknowledge that your saying you would _consider_ removing the posts I wanted pissed me off, and I withheld that from you.
I acknowledge that I did not intend to follow your specific instructions to quote the sentences I would like removed. I do so here, and ask that you please remove them, and the quotes of them from this post afterward. I am quoting only three specific emails of mine. I am comfortable with the extracted quotes of and references to these three specific emails in your past replies remaining on the board. That way the thread of communication is preserved.

****************************************
On 8/31/2011 6:28 PM, PathofLove wrote:
Kerry,
>>
Thank you for your response.
>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>
PathofLove
>>

On 8/30/2011 3:51 AM, PathofLove wrote:
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>>
Thanks,
PathofLove
>>>

On 8/29/2011 5:37 PM, PathofLove wrote:
Kerry,
>>>>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>>>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request] >>>>>
[sentence deleted per POL's request]
>>>>>
Thanks,
PathofLove
>>>>>
*************************************

I acknowledge that I have read and recognize myself and my patterns in the abuse addiction material you have posted on the site.
I acknowledge that I am addicted to abuse.
I withheld from you that I am addicted to abuse, thinking it must be obvious since I wanted to participate on this site.
I acknowledge that I see now it would not be obvious, and that I should have shared that with you up front.
I acknowledge that I acknowledged being addicted to abuse in a clearing, and now I recognize the difference of ackn in a clearing and ackn in real life.
I acknowledge that I wonder that if I were not addicted to abuse and found this site, would I have joined, or would I have recognized abusive behavior and not joined?
I acknowledge that I am afraid you are going to give me the "come back in three months or 50 hours of therapy" heave-ho.
I acknowledge that I feel on the verge of stepping out of this site, but I am dying to know what happens next :)

I acknowledge that I feel the Community Communications site is disjointed, obfuscating, and incomplete, and is frustrating to use, in many small but cumulative ways on a daily basis.
I acknowledge that I am using the flaws in the site to make you wrong in order use skills and talents that I enjoy using that I don't have any other outlet for.

And finally:
"Please assure me that you are not in therapy or that you are not addicted to a mind-altering substance."
Tsk, tsk. Shame on you, sir! The mind is enough to blur the sharpest intelligence, and you know it.


Thank you for listening, and I sincerely apologize for my perpetrations.
Shidliwink


(...to think that i could do this with my father and feel so freeeeeee...)

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Kerry
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Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:23 am

Hi Shidliwink,

Please check to see if I deleted your specific questions correctly.

I got all of your communications and considerations except; I asked, "Please assure me that you are not in therapy or that you are not addicted to a mind-altering substance." to which you replied. “Tsk, tsk. Shame on you, sir! The mind is enough to blur the sharpest intelligence, and you know it.” Please, both answer, and, let me know that you now know that your reply is both abusive and confusing, that it avoids answering my question. For example: Spouse to partner: “Where were you?” Partner: “Jeezus! I’m sick and tired of you not trusting me. You’re always . . . ” etc. Attacking anger, insulting sarcasm, even humor, is a red flag as it's often used to deflect, confuse, and misdirect so as to not have to tell the truth. Intention is intending an answer.

Please read the definition of the word responsibility. For any relationship to grow both must agree to communicate responsibly, from cause; i.e. That you are intending (causing) me to say/write what I say/write. For example: “How/why did I get Kerry to write/ask that?” “What would it take for me to be a safe space for Kerry to share his perps with me?” BTW: You can trust me to share my withholds and upsets with you to you. Every other week I share, clear, and acknowledge all perps, with a support group I facilitate (we've been meeting for 20 years with zero lates and zero unexcused absences).

Re: "I sincerely apologize for my perpetrations." It doesn't work to support someone in apologizing for their perpetrations. It guarantees that they will repeat the behavior. i.e. "I'm so sorry. I won't cheat on you again." It took you your entire life to create those results; it doesn't make sense to invalidate the genius that created them. When you accept an apology (rather tanother'sanothers perps) they have to set up life to get caught again so as to simply be gotten. "Confession" misses the mark due to the added variables of punishments and guilt.

Re: "(...to think that i could do this with my father and feel so freeeeeee...)" Yah. Mind blowing isn't it.

Feel free to point out errors and confusions. Silence condones and supports mediocrity.

With aloha,

Kerry

Shidliwink

Re: Considerations

Postby Shidliwink » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:42 pm

Kerry,

"Please check to see if I deleted your specific questions correctly."
Yes, thank you. What a relief.

"Please assure me that you are not in therapy or that you are not addicted to a mind-altering substance."
I acknowledge that my response to your request was abusive and intending not to answer. I acknowledge that I do not intend to respond to this kind of request if I do not understand its relevance. Without context or qualification, it is an abusive request. It is implying something that you are not stating directly. Also, I can answer, but I cannot promise to assure you of anything. I could tell you the truth, and you could take it for a lie, or I could lie to you, and you could accept it as truth.

"Please read the definition of the word responsibility." Done. Got it.

'“What would it take for me to be a safe space for Kerry to share his perps with me?” '
Well, I can only be safe or unsafe for myself, so you must mean: "Am I a safe enough space for myself to handle what I hear from Kerry without imploding or exploding?" Please clarify.

"Every other week I share, clear, and acknowledge all perps, with a support group I facilitate (we've been meeting for 20 years with zero lates and zero unexcused absences)."
I acknowledge that I don't understand the relevance of this to me.

"I sincerely apologize for my perpetrations." :P I acknowledge that I guard my own personal definition of the word "apologize" while using the recognized word that others like to hear. I don't make promises, I don't say "I'm sorry", and I don't accept apologies because I am no one to condone or condemn another. I acknowledge that I'm still dependent on "apologize" because I'm afraid to find out what happens when I don't use it. So I have adjusted my own meaning of the word so that I feel okay about using it. When I say I apologize, I mean, "I feel the weight of my actions. I acknowledge my responsibility." I have always felt that "apologize" does not really mean "I'm sorry," so I looked it up today, and--surprise--it comes from the Greek root, "apologia," which means "a defense or justification." :!: So what my unconscious really said to you was, "I sincerely defend and justify my perpetrations." I am a genius. An unconscious genius.

"'You did not reply to anything I wrote about the board posts.' You didn’t ask me to so I got it as more mind stuff."
I identify whining, punishment. I acknowledge that I enjoy being able to identify this and being able to point it out. I also acknowledge that what I had written was mind.

"You’re more than welcome to make this “THE” incident."
I identify condescension. I acknowledge that I enjoy being able to identify this and being able to point it out.

"Yes, I get that, per, my, “If you quote the specific sentences you want removed I'll consider deleting them.”"
I identify sarcasm. I acknowledge that it gives me great pleasure to be able to identify this and be able to point it out.

"I suspect you have another such accidental/unconscious incident ... ". . . to be transferred to the board if you see fit."
I acknowledge I find this idea ridiculous, but I reserve final judgement until the day that I remember every single thing ever said to me.

"Feel free to point out errors and confusions. Silence condones and supports mediocrity."
Okay, but I need to stop now and do that in another post.

Shidliwink

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Kerry
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Re: Considerations

Postby Kerry » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:37 am

Hi Shidliwink

I asked about therapy because, if you are, it's not ethical of me to get in the way of another's professional support, also if you are, you need to intend that the therapy work or to discontinue it. —the question pertains to one of the Eligibility Requirements for the Spouse Abuse Tutorial.

In any case, it's now a moot point. I trust you can see the anger in each of your posts; I don't have any sense that you're intending our coms to be of value, rather they reveal a commitment to arguing, to being right, to making me wrong, and to be rejected. It doesn't feel good. It's clear to me that I do not have the ability to co-create mutually satisfying communications with you.

The one communication I'm sure will forward you is to recess you. Please not post/reply here or email me until you can tell me you have completed (25) fifty-minute sessions with a therapist or counselor.

Once again, no posts to this Message Board, the Message Drop, or The Clearing Process. No enrollments in any of our tutorials and no emails.

I have the thought that you might be tempted (programmed) to pump out one last angry knee-jerk response so as to get in the last word. No, when ignored, is tantamount to date rape; a reply from you now would vadecisionmy decison to recess you. Choose to experience the upset (be with it until it disappears—as a choice this will produce immense value for you) rather than react/act out a programmed decision.

With aloha,

Kerry


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