About creating agreements?

Post your own question to Dear Gabby
Bob
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:55 am

About creating agreements?

Postby Bob » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:36 am

I wish to ask your thoughts on the best way to create an agreement without it becoming an imitation of agreement.

Gabby
Site Admin
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:24 am

Re: Agreement

Postby Gabby » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:23 am

Hi Bob,

Re: "I wish to ask your thoughts on the best way to create an agreement . . ." My thoughts are not what works. And, I'm unaware of a "best way." I seem to do it differently, using different words each time. That's because agreements are about intention. Ofter people discover that they had no intention to have another honor their word. An imitation of an agreement is one that is not kept; it looked like an agreement, sounded like an agreement, but the result reveals that it was merely an imitation of an agreement.

As you've read in our various "about the tutorial," the test of a well crafted co-created agreement is the results.

If one were to watch a new teacher the first time he/she is trying to communicate a Homework Assignment Agreement you'd probably see and hear, a louder voice, intense eye-to-eye (I really mean it) contact with each student and a condescending demeanor (as though the children didn't understand English), and lots of repetition and perhaps some testing, "Tom, what's the homework?" Actually there's nothing wrong with this, it's just that it's unnecessary and it's time consuming, and it reveals that the teacher did not communicate what's so about agreements with the student and his/her parent(s) at the beginning of the year.

The key word above is "co-created." One can't dump an agreement on another and expect certainty. For example: With a neighbor whom I haven't loaned anything to them before, I usually ask in some way, when they say, "I'll bring it back to you this afternoon." I ask, "How are you about agreements?" or "Good, can I count on you to have it back by 5:00?" What gets communicated non-verbally is that if you don't return it on time you just won't be considered trustworthy, and you won't be able to borrow from me again. I find that people are actually proud and pleased when they honor an agreement with me, that they got the tool back by 5:00 (like a second-grader returning from an important errand). As with a child, what's important is to acknowledge their kept agreement. i.e. "Thank you for getting it back to me before 5:00." It completes the interaction. For them it's like money in the bank, they know they can borrow from me again.

The most important factor for me is my integrity. People say that I look strict, a no nonsense kind of guy, that I look strong, like I mean what I say. I know that I carry a military-like confidence that communicates respect, there's also a fear of betraying/disappointing me. It's an aura thing that comes from my own knowingness—that I can be trusted to honor agreements, therefore I expect you too also. This aura thing communicates power. The power comes from being whole and complete, completing as much as possible so that incompletes don't sap my mind, my creativity, the space in which I manifest intentions. Power is the rate at which one cycles through creating (starting), having (doing), and completing (having/acknowledging).

When co-creating an agreement there's a minimum of superfluous words—distractions that can be used to confuse the particulars. You must have some sense that they are clear that you expect them to recreate your intention. They have an experience of differentness, unlike other times they've borrowed something from someone; what also gets communicated is responsibility as pertains to borrowing, they know they will have to pay for it if they break it.

With a child there must be a built in expected consequence, one they decide upon up front.

When an employee breaks an agreement it's never ever about that agreement; it's about an earlier similar agreement with you or another for which they have not been acknowledged (caught). Read about recidivism in the Community Support Group Project for Parolees and the Potential Rumor "Hawaii to hire successful parolees to serve on Parole Boards"
You can't expect someone to honor an agreement with you if there is disrespect in the space, or if you or they are dragging around other unacknowledged withhold/broken agreements. This is why The [free] Clearing Process is of value.

Lastly, one can't expect to have others consistently honor agreements with them if they are abusing or being abused. One can't tell if a broken agreement is about the consequence of a created abuse or if it's simply a communication problem.

In the teacher's tutorial we discuss with a parent—what should you do when your son doesn't honor his homework agreement? or, "How shall I handle you if/when you get upset or angry when I insist that you complete your homework? These variables are covered during the co-creating agreement process with a student and his/her parent(s) at the beginning of the semester.

Tip: When you lend to someone whom you don't know if they can be trusted to honor an agreement, someone whose integrity is such that their credit is bad, you must have in the back of your mind, up-front, that it's a gift.

Great question! With aloha, Gabby

PS: Here's some cookies for your mind.

PPS: Check back from time to time for minor edits. Last edited 5/17/17

Bob
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:55 am

Re: Agreement

Postby Bob » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:48 pm

Thank you for your prompt answer Kerry.
So one can never be certain at the time an agreement is created whether it is an agreement or an imitation of one, if I get you properly. Only the results will give the answer.
Your thoughts on an agreement kept partially? For example between 2 persons, does it indicate an out-integrity in the life of the 2 persons or not necessarily?
If your new neighbor fails to return the mower at 5 as agreed, he clearly shows himself to be untrustworthy, how do you read this result in regard to yourself?

Re: Lastly, one can't expect to have others consistently honor agreement with them if they are abusing or being abused. One can't tell if a broken agreement is about the consequence of a created abuse or if it's simply a communication problem.

Can you expand on this please? Who stand for the "they" in your mind?
Thanks again, I find it very helpful.
Bob

Gabby
Site Admin
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:24 am

Re: About creating agreements?

Postby Gabby » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:07 pm

Hi Bob,

You're welcome.

Re: "So one can never be certain at the time an agreement is created whether it is an agreement or an imitation of one, if I get you properly." Yours is a rhetorical question. If you're referring to an actual incident then you should relate the incident. In which case you'd write, "So I can't be certain . . ." However, that is true. With friends who have a track record of reliability with me I have considerable certainty, however, I also know that to trust another is unethical. People can be trusted until they can't. Everyone has some breaking point. Often one creates that survival (or something else) is more important than integrity. For me to set up life to be dependent upon you honoring your word would be a setup, to eventually make you wrong—for being human. I find that I've become quite good at reading others, knowing whom to trust and who has yet to crash and burn and who is on the way up. My responsibility is, who to play with.

Re: "Your thoughts on an agreement kept partially? For example between 2 persons, does it indicate an out-integrity in the life of the 2 persons or not necessarily?" Another rhetorical question. As pertains to you, it only refers to your out-integrity. Around you people have no choice other than to mirror your integrity. You're trying to shift that blame, trying to find out if the other party is out-integrity. It simply reveals your addiction to blaming. Experience tells me that anyone who would make an agreement with you is out-integrity. No big thing—most everyone is out-integrity. The people to play with are those who are supportable in cleaning up (acknowledging) life's perpetrations and, who estrange themselves from abusive relationships. For me to continue interacting with anyone (for example, you) still in an abusive relationship guarantees the contents of the conversations, the types of problems they (you) will dump in my space, more of the same, most importantly, it invalidates my support.

Re: "If your new neighbor fails to return the mower at 5 as agreed, he clearly shows himself to be untrustworthy, how do you read this result in regard to yourself?" This is a hypothetical question and so it's can't be answered accurately. However, I believe what you're asking is—would a broken agreement with me reveal that my integrity was/is out somewhere. Yes. Often clients (still on the way down) will break an agreement with me just to prove that my integrity is/must be out; it's a covert make-wrong, however, it's an essential part of the mastery curriculum. Broken agreements always trigger thoughts as to what it must be about for me, what's incomplete for me, where/when did I go unconscious. Who in my life have I done the same?

Re: "Re: Lastly, one can't expect to have others consistently honor agreement with them if they are abusing or being abused. One can't tell if a broken agreement is about the consequence of a created abuse or if it's simply a communication problem." You, Bob, can't expect others to consistently honor agreements with you as long as you continue to abusively set it up to be abused. Until you commit to an abuse-free personal relationship, every time someone breaks an agreement with you, you won't know if it's a consequence of your abuse or if it's simply a communication problem.

Re: "helpful." Understanding something is the booby prize. Understanding that fire burns is as far from knowing as is not knowing.

Gabby

Last edited 1/7/17

Bob
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:55 am

Re: About creating agreements?

Postby Bob » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:11 am

Yours is a rhetorical question.
True it is rhetorical and I could have phrased the question in the "I" form. I have an agreement I am working on with one of my sons right now, but I am also interested in a format which might work with all/most agreements if there was one, therefore the abstract rhetorical format.
As I consider your answer, you are confirming something I have known for a while, which is I will find no substitute for the building up of credibility over a time period, and I will find no quick fix for the lack of it from a well crafted, carefully thought out agreement, although it may help as a start.

Another rhetorical question. As pertains to you, it only refers to your out-integrity. Around you people have no choice other than to mirror your integrity. You're trying to shift that blame, trying to find out if the other party is out-integrity. It simply reveals your addiction to blaming. My experience tell me that anyone who would make an agreement with you is out-integrity.
Relevant to our discussion in terms of the thoughts and feelings it creates, I feel judged summarily by your statement <it simply reveals your addiction to blaming>. Going by your definition of abuse, I find it abusive, if mildly. You have built a lot of credibility with me through the work and effort evidenced in the comcom 121 website. Obviously, good will towards humanity motivates you, you could spend more time surfing and less time communicating. Being aware of that enables me not to dismiss any of your statements too easily. Also the insight about abuse gained through interacting with you and browsing through the site makes it possible for me to catch the feeling and make this remark to you. Possibly an unconscious set up on your part to see if I am getting the material properly.
On the other hand, you are correct in the fact I have been addicted to blaming most of my life and need to be very careful about this. Am I still? When acting from consciousness/in awareness, no. Am I always acting consciously? No, not yet, for sure. Are you? Is anyone? (this last question consciously rhetorical).
Anyway I like your no nonsense approach about disappearing problems to make room and address the next ones propping up on the list.
Re <around you people have no choice to mirror your integrity>, from you, I doubt it is rhetorical, therefore can you elaborate?
I am not engaging you in a fruitless conversation/argument but call on your experience gained over years of practicing this communication business with people. It has given you insight that lay-people such as myself can't have, your willingness to share it is very valuable, however frustrating it may get at times.
So thank you for the giving of your time and insight. I actually have plenty more to ask, (a basket) I have no doubt you will let me know when enough is enough.
I am not totally sure of what you mean by "booby price" when it comes to understanding, I do appreciate the help in gaining understanding though, internalizing is a different matter altogether, I get that. In any case <boob> is always nice.

Gabby
Site Admin
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:24 am

Re: About creating agreements?

Postby Gabby » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:34 pm

Hi Bob,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. There's too much for me too address. The content comes from a mind addicted to arguing, to finding fault, to making another wrong. Responsibility: It would work if, in the future, you intend me to write what I write. That is to say, there is a way to disagree without making another wrong. My job as a coach is to mirror you and the effects of your communications.

Booby "prize" as in, what you understand about being the cause of the abuse between you and yours is worthless; what you "know about" (your understanding) of abuse is serving as a barrier to you acting/living from what you know. You're submitting those you relate with to more of the same. They have absolutely no choice but to communicate with you as they do. If you continue to interact with someone equally addicted to abusing and being abused then you will continue to generate the same kinds of problems/conversations. It's possible you might find the conversations that take place during therapy to meet your needs. Therapists support you in having the exact same problem for the next session; they also encourage disagreement and arguing. I on the other hand, want to hear your goals and what positive results you've been producing from our interactions.

Presently you're on a sinking ship with one foot on its deck and the other in a lifeboat. For life to work as you know it can you must choose to play with people who inspire you to live, people who are equally committed to having life and relationships work. Create a purpose, then your communications will be consistent with supporting your purpose. Trying to make a relationship work is taxing; trying to make something work that doesn't work (doesn't naturally generate excitement and aliveness) is unhealthy for all concerned. Having a relationship work frees both partners to work on his/her purpose in life.

Feel free to post again when you can tell me that you have completed your present abusive relationship so that you are eligible to do the abuse tutorial so as to engage in some forwarding coaching. Begin your post with, "I have estranged myself from my abusive relationship and have completed six-months in a row without interacting with my former partner."

BTW: You are teaching your child to put up with a less than satisfying relationship, to try and change another.

With aloha,

Gabby

Last edited 1/7/17

Bob
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:55 am

Re: About creating agreements?

Postby Bob » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:51 am

Thank you for your answer.
Bob

Gabby
Site Admin
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:24 am

Re: About creating agreements?

Postby Gabby » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:29 am

Hi Bob,

You're most welcome.

Best wishes,

Gabby


Return to “Ask Gabby your own question”

cron