#44 Should I ask for hand in marriage?
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:02 pm
Dear Annie: I have been dating "Brittany" for five years. We are both 22 years old and in love. I would like to propose. Do I need to ask her father for permission? If so, when do I do it? Groom-to-Be in Long Beach, Calif.
Dear Groom-to-Be: Well, aren’t you adorably quaint. These days dear you ask the girl first. Assuming Brittany accepts your proposal, it would impress her daddy no end if you asked your future in-laws for their permission to marry their wonderful daughter.
Good luck. You sound like a real sweetheart. Annie
Gabby’s Response:
Hi Groom-to-Be: Looks like your genes have intuitively retained some sense of the brilliance behind the protocol of many cultures, one that has been mostly ignored these past decades. If you agree that a son/daughter’s mandate to his/her parents is to bring into the family someone who "fits" and will enhance the clan then the following reply will make sense.
I’m a bit concerned that you’ve been dating her for five years and don’t have a relationship with her parents such that you already know you have their support. In any case, let’s assume that distance or some other legit reason has prevented each of you from introducing the other to his/her parents.
Two things come to mind.
1) Your question is sexist and reveals something about your attitude towards women that ultimately won’t work for you. You have already lost at least one point from her mother (assuming she is an actualized woman). Had you asked, "Do I need her parent’s support?" you would have entered into their household with a full 100 points. And, the answer would have been, yes, you need their permission and support.
That you don’t know, from your own experiences in your family that the son-in-law alliance is essential for a smooth marriage, suggests you have yet to learn the basics from your own family. I ask myself why are you asking here instead of asking your own mother and then your father. Let’s put this clearly. It won’t work for you to walk around in life with unconscious condescensions towards women.
2) What does Brittany think/know will be her father’s response? It could be a set-up, for you to thwart her father’s wishes. She should know by now (and have communicated it to you) that asking for his permission is merely a formality. A daughter from a loving actualized family looks for a man whom she knows her father would be proud to have as a son-in-law. Loving daughters do this automatically. For her to introduce you to a man whom she intuitively suspects will not like you would be abusive. In a healthy father-daughter relationship there is trust—that each will relate with, and bring home/into the family, only people who treat others lovingly.
In order to have and sustain a wonderful relationship you need to be willing to not have it.
My question: What if you "ask" and he doesn’t say the words yes or no but what gets communicated is no. Would you abide by his wishes? Or, would you enroll her in thwarting and ignoring him and get married anyway? Are you asking permission or presenting a nonverbal ultimatum? The ultimatum being: "Your daughter and I have decided to get married and we’d like your support, however, if you don’t like it, tough luck, we’re going to do it anyway." In other words, will your request for permission be just a "polite act" or do you intend to honor and respect his wishes. If he’s not in favor of it then ultimately it won’t work.
Let’s look at this from another perspective. That she doesn’t know intuitively her parents would say yes is indicative of communication problems within her family. She should have validated for you a long ago her choice in you. "My parents will just love you. You’re going to love them." A daughter who is in loving supportive communication with her parents comes from, operates from, supporting them. The point being, daughters have a mandate, to search out and bring into the family someone who will enhance the family. Daughters who have communication problems with their parents have yet to learn the communication skills necessary for a successful marriage. To marry such a woman is to never have a communication with her that does not include part of a former communication with her parents that did not turn out mutually satisfying. Her arguments with you will contain remnants of arguments that she never won with either her mother or her father. That is to say, she operates from an adversarial (win-loose) communication model.
Based upon your question, my guess is that she knows that her father knows she’s not ready for marriage. You’ll know when she’s ready because you will have twinges of envy about the awesome intimacy between her and her father. She would do well to engage the services of a communicologist who will coach her in having a complete supportive relationship with her parents. Were you ready for marriage you would have felt perfectly comfortable asking her your question—so you would do well to elicit some coaching to support you in being complete with your parents. They were supposed to have taught you these things. That they didn’t says there are quite a few conversations you have yet to have with them before you bring a daughter-in-law into their family. Do the Relationships Tutorial—conversations to have with your steady/fiancé in support of a fantastic marriage.
There is an exception to asking: If your parents and her parents are stuck in abuse and you both are willing to recess them from your lives until they get therapy, to your satisfactions, then you can co-create a new paradigm. If you choose this path I recommend that you both do the Spouse Abuse Tutorial
because, unbeknownst to you, both of you are also addicted to abuse.
Great question! Thank you, Gabby
To post a comment press "post reply."
Dear Groom-to-Be: Well, aren’t you adorably quaint. These days dear you ask the girl first. Assuming Brittany accepts your proposal, it would impress her daddy no end if you asked your future in-laws for their permission to marry their wonderful daughter.
Good luck. You sound like a real sweetheart. Annie
Gabby’s Response:
Hi Groom-to-Be: Looks like your genes have intuitively retained some sense of the brilliance behind the protocol of many cultures, one that has been mostly ignored these past decades. If you agree that a son/daughter’s mandate to his/her parents is to bring into the family someone who "fits" and will enhance the clan then the following reply will make sense.
I’m a bit concerned that you’ve been dating her for five years and don’t have a relationship with her parents such that you already know you have their support. In any case, let’s assume that distance or some other legit reason has prevented each of you from introducing the other to his/her parents.
Two things come to mind.
1) Your question is sexist and reveals something about your attitude towards women that ultimately won’t work for you. You have already lost at least one point from her mother (assuming she is an actualized woman). Had you asked, "Do I need her parent’s support?" you would have entered into their household with a full 100 points. And, the answer would have been, yes, you need their permission and support.
That you don’t know, from your own experiences in your family that the son-in-law alliance is essential for a smooth marriage, suggests you have yet to learn the basics from your own family. I ask myself why are you asking here instead of asking your own mother and then your father. Let’s put this clearly. It won’t work for you to walk around in life with unconscious condescensions towards women.
2) What does Brittany think/know will be her father’s response? It could be a set-up, for you to thwart her father’s wishes. She should know by now (and have communicated it to you) that asking for his permission is merely a formality. A daughter from a loving actualized family looks for a man whom she knows her father would be proud to have as a son-in-law. Loving daughters do this automatically. For her to introduce you to a man whom she intuitively suspects will not like you would be abusive. In a healthy father-daughter relationship there is trust—that each will relate with, and bring home/into the family, only people who treat others lovingly.
In order to have and sustain a wonderful relationship you need to be willing to not have it.
My question: What if you "ask" and he doesn’t say the words yes or no but what gets communicated is no. Would you abide by his wishes? Or, would you enroll her in thwarting and ignoring him and get married anyway? Are you asking permission or presenting a nonverbal ultimatum? The ultimatum being: "Your daughter and I have decided to get married and we’d like your support, however, if you don’t like it, tough luck, we’re going to do it anyway." In other words, will your request for permission be just a "polite act" or do you intend to honor and respect his wishes. If he’s not in favor of it then ultimately it won’t work.
Let’s look at this from another perspective. That she doesn’t know intuitively her parents would say yes is indicative of communication problems within her family. She should have validated for you a long ago her choice in you. "My parents will just love you. You’re going to love them." A daughter who is in loving supportive communication with her parents comes from, operates from, supporting them. The point being, daughters have a mandate, to search out and bring into the family someone who will enhance the family. Daughters who have communication problems with their parents have yet to learn the communication skills necessary for a successful marriage. To marry such a woman is to never have a communication with her that does not include part of a former communication with her parents that did not turn out mutually satisfying. Her arguments with you will contain remnants of arguments that she never won with either her mother or her father. That is to say, she operates from an adversarial (win-loose) communication model.
Based upon your question, my guess is that she knows that her father knows she’s not ready for marriage. You’ll know when she’s ready because you will have twinges of envy about the awesome intimacy between her and her father. She would do well to engage the services of a communicologist who will coach her in having a complete supportive relationship with her parents. Were you ready for marriage you would have felt perfectly comfortable asking her your question—so you would do well to elicit some coaching to support you in being complete with your parents. They were supposed to have taught you these things. That they didn’t says there are quite a few conversations you have yet to have with them before you bring a daughter-in-law into their family. Do the Relationships Tutorial—conversations to have with your steady/fiancé in support of a fantastic marriage.
There is an exception to asking: If your parents and her parents are stuck in abuse and you both are willing to recess them from your lives until they get therapy, to your satisfactions, then you can co-create a new paradigm. If you choose this path I recommend that you both do the Spouse Abuse Tutorial
because, unbeknownst to you, both of you are also addicted to abuse.
Great question! Thank you, Gabby
To post a comment press "post reply."