#45 My sister won't talk with us

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#45 My sister won't talk with us

Post by Gabby » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:53 pm

DEAR ABBY: I have a sister I’ll call Lisa, who refuses to contact any of the family. Granted, for years she was physically abused by our father, our mother was cold and emotionally abusive, and I guess the family was unsupportive. But no family is perfect. Right?

Everyone in the family thinks Lisa is being selfish, bitter and unforgiving, myself included. I stood by my family. Lisa turned her back.

The last time I talked to Lisa, she said she had suffered greatly due to the family and wants a life of her own. How can she do this? She claims she doesn’t feel "safe" with us.

I know our family isn't perfect by any means, and I know I haven’t been the greatest sister, but she can’t just leave! Right? She has a responsibility to this family. Isn’t she being neglectful to simply turn her back on us?

Abby, you know how important family is. How can I get Lisa to admit she is wrong and return to the family? FRUSTRATED SISTER IN CANADA

DEAR FRUSTRATED: Lisa isn’t being selfish, bitter or unforgiving. After a lifetime of abuse, she has somehow become healthy and refuses to tolerate being mistreated any longer.

The best advice I can offer is to accept her decision and wish her well. She has served her time and has gone on to better things. Console yourself with the fact that you and the family still have each other. ABBY


Gabby’s Response:

Hi Frustrated: You ask, "How can I get Lisa to admit she is wrong?" You can’t, because she isn’t. She appears to be the most sane person in the family. Even now, without her around, you refuse to support her having an abuse-free life. Making her wrong after you drove her out of your life is abusive. "Abusive" here meaning, any communication, to include a nonverbal/psychic intention, that doesn’t feel good to another.

Re: "Granted, for years she was physically abused ..." Notice you didn't add, "...and while she was begging for help I stood by and condoned it non-verbally."

Re: "I guess the family … was unsupportive." I guess? This is called denial. It can also be said that you were all incredibly powerfully supportive. You supported, you drove, her out of your lives and inspired her to opt for an abuse-free life. Few "victims" have that much courage, to choose to not engage in abusive communications. This is why most can't complete their addiction. It could also be said that your genius is at work, driving her out into the real world, perhaps in hopes that she will acquire the strength and wisdom to heal the family. On the other hand, you may have no choice other than to go your grave blaming her for leaving you. Not very powerful, but still, others will get value from reading your drama.

Re: "I stood by my family…." Another way of putting it is, "I enabled, I empowered, my family to treat her so abusively that she had no choice but to get away from all of us. Rather than do what it would have taken to stop the abuse, I compromised my integrity because…. Even now, instead of insisting our parents get therapy, I intend for them to continue to abuse her emotionally and psychically. I turned my back on her back then, when I was unconscious, and now that I'm more conscious I still choose to turn my back on her." If you think it’s hard on you, you should be in her shoes. You all force her to question her sanity daily. It is evil to relate with someone in such a way that they must compromise their integrity to interact with you.

Re: "She claims she doesn’t feel safe with us." No matter what I think or believe, if another tells me that then it’s me. Something about how I have communicated with them has created fear in the relationship.

Your use of the word "claims" is an invalidation of her experience. It communicates, "You’re wrong, we are safe."

Re: "She has a responsibility to the family." This is true, however it’s never ever responsible to point out another’s irresponsibility. The only people qualified to discuss responsibility with her are a coach/counselor/therapist. Responsibility for you would be for you to be willing to look and see what you’ve done to cause her to not want to interact with you. You, not your parents. No matter what you think, what you believe, or what another tells you, it’s been your intention to drive her away. We know this by the results. If you keep lying, about this you will keep producing more of the same.

If Lisa were my client I would let her know that her present path ultimately won’t work for her. She’s coming from blame and victim, and her solution is a make-wrong. What would turn the whole shunning activity into service is for her to issue each of you an ultimatum, "I won’t relate with any of you until each of you can tell me that you all have completed twenty-four 1-hr sessions with a therapist/counselor." Then you would a have a choice, to surrender to her, to allow her to contribute to healing the family, or to disregard her support.

One thing’s for certain, if you keep communicating the way you have been you have the formula for more of the same. You now have a choice, to do what you should have done back when you were young. Without your support, your family is doomed to estrangement.

Thanks for the great letter. Lots of readers will get value from it. Gabby

Last edited 10/4/20

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Last edited by Gabby on Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:45 am, edited 3 times in total.

N.O.Y.B

Post by N.O.Y.B » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:17 pm

wow. good job, Gabby. i didn't know you had it in you. you actually made a great deal of sense. i still don't understand your fetish with that whole addicted thing, but i did like that response. B)

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Post by Gabby » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:19 pm

Hi N.O.Y.B:

I get my "fetish" is a bit hard to get. It appears you have a charge on the word "addiction." Once you get that being addicted doesn't mean anything then the truth can come out and you can begin to observe your addictions instead of being in denial. From observation one begins to have choice. Doing things unconsciously keeps one from experiencing life.

Thanks, Gabby

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Post by Gabby » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:26 pm

Hi …kidding…:

“Me thinks thou dos’t protest too much.” :cry: I find that when someone gets as upset as you have, reading about responsibility, it’s indicative that the person has something in their life for which they have yet to accept responsibility. An incident, a conversation, a relationship-outcome in which they are still blaming another. No amount of talking disappears the upset and anger (underneath which is hurt and pain) because there’s a lie in the way the story is being related. When the truth is told the anger disappears.

…kidding…, it’s possible to disagree with another without resorting to labeling and name-calling abuse. The ideal would be to be able to read “BULLSH**T” [sic] like this and not have it upset you to the point where you have no choice but to react (violent SHOUTING no less) abusively.

Notice that there is no space for communication to take place between us. It’s called positionality. This is what ultimately happens when two have their own definitions of the words abuse and responsibility.

Thank you for posting. It will be of value for others.

Gabby

Gabby
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Post by Gabby » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:30 pm

Hi …kidding…:

Thank you for your willingness to communicate.

Gabby

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Post by DELETED » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:32 pm

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Gabby
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Post by Gabby » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:38 pm

Hi WhatWillBeWillBe:

There's something about your acknowledgment that doesn't feel quite right. Re: "WOW, the two of you are something else. Thanks Gabby, for your informative words. They have helped me understand immensely." Your words, "something else" could be a covert way of saying, you are both screwed up. And, "informative words" could mean, I learned you are full of it. And, "understand immensely" could be a covert way of communicating, I understand you are screwed up. The fact that these are subject to misinterpretation suggests that this is a pattern of yours, one that serves as a barrier to communication—in this case, an acknowledgment that doesn't feel good.

I have no problem at all with any post. Quite often a reply of mine will trigger upset in another. This I know. My task is to mirror a poster's communication model, and in doing so I am served. Sometimes, when I experience upset/anger, I don't always have a choice, I'm completely at effect. For some subjects it's a knee jerk response, so I know this is so for others. When I look back at some old letters of mine I'm shocked to see that I used to think and act like that. For me an upset is an opportunity to complete an earlier similar interaction, most often from childhood. Thereafter, once complete, that topic doesn't trigger upset. It's cool the way it works.

It took me 32 years to discover that I had been stuck in adversary. For each of us it takes as long as it takes.

What would work is for you to write here specifically what you have gotten. This, for three reasons: 1) It acknowledges me. 2) It anchors, (makes real) your realization. 3) Sharing with others expands upon the value for you. Thanks, Gabby

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:43 pm

It took insight and incredible courage for Lisa to leave her family. They're all sinking like the Titanic - there is no lifeboat to jump on - the passengers are following the captain - she chose to swim away.

Guest

Gabby
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Post by Gabby » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:44 pm

Yes, I agree 09 Apr Guest. And, there is a way to extract oneself from interactions with someone with whom you are unable to experience mutually satisfying communications, it's called serving. To simply stop interacting with someone is unethical. It's controlling. It keeps you and them incomplete. It doesn't give them a way, (the conditions you'd like them to meet) back into your life. What works is to give them some growth stimulating homework; this serves both them and you. The courage you speak of has also to do with the willingness to choose to experience being right and/or wrong and being alone. It gives rise to the saying, a leader, someone in service to others, must choose to go through the fear of being alone.

Most of us have mastered bringing people into our lives, finding something wrong with them, and then keeping them at varying arm's length for life. The explanation for this is covered in our new Intercourse Tutorial—beyond sex. However, suffice it to say, it would work for Lisa to give them all curriculums to work on in support of healing, and, as a way for getting back into communication with her.

The problem with finding fault, however much agreement there may be that the other is a jerk, unethical, abusive or outright dangerous/sick, is that it doesn't take into account your cause. So, when you recess another from your life you, confirm that you are unwilling to create more abuse, but it doesn't acknowledge your addiction to creating/attracting such a relationship. So, while the shunees are working on their stuff the shunner must also be committed to working on his /her stuff.

Thanks, Gabby
Last edited by Gabby on Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Courage

Post by Courage » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:47 pm

Re: My Sister won't talk with us. I came across this letter by chance after I had re-united with my sister. I am 'Lisa'. I have not re-united with everyone in my family, just my mom and my sister. I went for coffee at this particular coffee shop and the owner turned out to be friends with my sister (it is a small world) and through this friend (who automatically recognized me though she had never met me before because I reminded her so much of my sister), I discovered that my sister was in a serious accident. I had a choice to make and knowing how unsupportive the family had always been, I just couldn't turn my back. I felt like God led me to that coffee shop that I had never gone to before. My sister is also a mom and I have niece to love as well. I have grown so much stronger because I left the insanity of the abusive family and I am now able to set really good boundaries. The time away was very necessary and I can't imagine what my life would have been like if I hadn't left to heal. When one is in the midst of chaos, it is hard to think clearly and when you are alone, one voice, questioning the actions of many, you are not taken very seriously. Your reality is denied. One person responded, saying that I should have requested that each family member take 24 1 hour counseling sessions. I had begged time and time again for the family to get counseling. It fell on deaf ears. People do not want to be told that they need counseling, especially from someone younger, someone at the bottom end of the 'Pecking Order'. It is true, I went through blame, anger and much self-pity but I think that these feelings were part of the healing process. If I had simply stayed in the insanity, I would have continued to bury the emotions inside and would have continued to be sick. I was always a sick child and I think it was a result of holding in all the anger and pain. In leaving, I experienced a life where I didn't always have some lung condition or illness. I became healthy and I became stronger because I was able to experience the full range of emotions that I needed to experience and express that the family told me were wrong to even think about. And I don't think it was my sister's intention to drive me away, she was simply being the loyal daughter who was living what she learned. She couldn't see the destructiveness of the family and I could. Words are not taken very seriously, but actions are. I suppose, I also wanted to state through action that horrible things were being done in the family and it wasn't okay. I wasn't going to go for 'Easter Dinner' and pretend, while the family tore and ripped at each other. In leaving, I think I did more good than I ever could have done staying. My dad now goes to church regularly and he had given up drinking and although I can't see him because the abuse was just too devestating, I am very happy that he is leading a better life. I have been able to forgive him. My mum and I talk and write letters. We are kinder to each other now. Thank you to all the respondents who supported me in leaving. Reading those responses was a gift for me. Finding this letter at all was another miracle at work.

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Post by Gabby » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:49 am

Hi Courage, a.k.a. Lisa:

How nice that you were able to read my reply to your sister.

There's so much in your post I simply can't reply appropriately. Suffice it to say, it doesn't feel good. It is in fact abusive. It's argumentative. It's blaming.

For example: "I had begged time and time again for the family to get counseling. It fell on deaf ears." A responsible person would have written. I didn't know how to communicate. "Deaf ears" is a make-wrong. It blames them for not being able to hear rather than the truth, that you didn't cause communication to take place. You had no intention for them to do therapy. They intuitively knew that you didn't mean it—that you would eventualy get back into relating with them without them having to do therapy.

Your post reveals that you are in denial— "I don't think it was my sister's intention ... " —albeit an unconscious intention. The results are staring us in the face.

Your post also reveals that you have unconsciously rewarded your mom for supporting your dad's abuse all those years, lest of course she has acknowledged that she intended him to do so to herself and you. (read about third party empowering).

I do not trust that your dad is off the wagon.

I recommend that you do the Spouse Abuse Tutorial.

Please do not post or reply here until you have completed the Spouse Abuse Tutorial.

With aloha,

Gabby
Last edited by Gabby on Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sami
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Post by Sami » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:05 am

I think Gabby's reply to Lisa is abusive and it doesn't feel good to read.

It is judgemental and accusing.

I don't think he meant it when he said, "How nice" to her. It sounded
sarcastic.

Gee, how does he know how she communicated with her family. He is encouraging
hre to blame herself.

I felt bad for her, a sick kid taht was being hurt trying to get grown ups to listn to her.

Don't feel bad Lisa. don't listen to this.

Sami

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