Our father

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gregorys90
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Our father

Postby gregorys90 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:30 pm

It has come to the point were your comments have come to fruition. I am going to college and I have a lot of aid from my father right now at the moment. I've just completed 2 years of community school. As an incoming freshman he wouldn't commit to my education for fear of drop out but now he is ok, also my step mother was just against me going to school for an attempt at revenge or w/e, (she was happy I didn't pass a placement exam for instance) Besides her, my father hurt me a lot with that. This isn't the beginning though, throughout my life he has been verbally abusive to me. He has lashed out on me for things that were really about my mom or my moms husband. He lectured me on the way to school every morning telling me how horrible my mom was "the things i'd tell you when your older" I still remember that. Additionally what his character is and what he has done doesn't help either (adultery, compulsive about pornography, relationships with others..) Frankly I don't respect him. We talk superficially because this has never been cleared up. I'm not alone my half brother and sister nearly twice my age are in the same position with him. I spoke to them and they say confronting him won't work, they have tried; feel defeated. My sister said, if I did confront him about this he might say something like " fuck you, I didn't do anything wrong." and she would feel worse than before. Both seem ok with having this superficial relationship. I said about my personal integrity, I'm considering withdrawing from his support for school if he doesn't change or apologize to all that he has hurt and thats a long list. My sister said when he gave her some money she felt like that was his compensation for his actions to her and it was about time; she deserved it. So this what I'm asking now that I feel you have good understanding.

Do I? If so how do I and what really should I say? What do I really want from him as father after that? Consequentially this is now pressure on my brother and sister, a great rift in my family but thats actually nothing at the moment. My mother probably won't like it because I'm burdening myself with loans not to mention additional pressure on her. I've been really thinking, and I don't want to build a church out of mafia money so to speak. That I shouldn't take his money unless I appreciate it instead of like my sister feeling like its compensation.

Much Aloha

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:21 pm

Hi gregorys90,

I got it.

Thank you,

Kerry

gregorys90
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:09 pm

Re: Our father

Postby gregorys90 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:03 am

Hi Kerry,

I was expecting a response from you. Is this not the place to ask questions like this?

Much Aloha

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:43 am

Hi gregorys90,

Re:
gregorys90 wrote:Hi Kerry, I was expecting a response from you. Is this not the place to ask questions like this? Much Aloha
I too was waiting for a reply, but from you, to my reply to your Test post. Did you receive email notification of my reply to your "Test post"? (select "Notify me when a reply is posted." I assume "green bench" refers to the green tables with benches at Island Naturals (Pahoa)? I meet so many people around town that I'm not remembering you as Gregory or our conversations. A reminder as to when we've talked and some content about our conversation(s) will help.

This Message Board is the correct place for non-tutorial participants to ask questions. When I didn't get a reply from you I handled your 26 Jul 2011 05:03 am post as a Clearing post. With Clearing posts my agreement is "get" and not offer comments or coaching. I can't even address things such as lies/blamings you've shared in a clearing unless/until you share them elsewhere—so don't assume I know what you've revealed in a clearing.

BTW: The way to optimize The Clearing Process is to do five clearings in a row; "Used daily, beginning with five days in a row, the process will produce even more value." Each day reveals another layer of stuff the mind has hidden from you and itself. When you put a few days between the first five clearings the mind cleverly buries the significant incompletes (mostly perpetrations) under another layer of unconsciousness.

Once you've satisfied my curiosity as to your identity and, have completed five clearings in a row, we''ll address your concerns. The five clearings in a row are a communication to me of your willingness to be contributed to and of your intent to resolve your problem.

With aloha,

Kerry

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:17 am

Hi gregorys90 ,

Re: “It has come to the point were your comments have come to fruition.” I don’t know what comments you are referring to, and, thank you for the nice acknowledgment.

Re: “As an incoming freshman he wouldn't commit to my education . . .” This is referred to as a blame statement. As opposed to, [I didn’t have the communication skills to enroll him in supporting my want.]

Re: “. . . for fear of drop out . . .” Not so. This is just a reason, it’s what your mind believes to be the truth, however, underneath your reasons is the truth. The mind tends to blame another when it’s not clear about its intentions.

Re: “. . . also my step mother was just against me going to school for an attempt at revenge . . .” Again, another lie. Even unconscious lies have undesirable consequences. Also, it’s another blame “victim” statement. What did you do, or not do, that caused her to thwart you?

Re: “, (she was happy I didn't pass a placement exam . . .) Another lie. I assure you she was not happy even if she acted happy.

Re: “. . . He lectured me on the way to school.” Another blame statement. When someone starts lecturing me I stop them and remind them that it doesn’t feel good. In other words, I put a stop to it immediately, else I’ll end up blaming them for lecturing. Another, more powerful way of putting it is, [I set him up to lecture me so that I could make him wrong.]

Re: “. . . telling me how horrible my mom was . . .” Here you were empowering him in badmouthing another. You unconsciously intended it so that he didn’t turn his anger against you. i.e. [Dad, please stop trashing mom. It doesn’t feel good.]

Re: “. . . I'd "the things i'd tell you when your older" This is a condescending statement, as though you’re not capable of understanding . . . Your dad was/is addicted abuse and to controlling and blaming. He was unconsciously hoping you would stop him. He had no choice but to act that way, probably still doesn’t; just as you have no choice but to find fault with him, it's a computer-like program

Re: “Frankly I don't respect him.” This is the most significant com of your post. Have you told him precisely that, "Dad, I don't respect you." I mean verbally, not non-verbally as you have been doing, self-righteouslyjudgmentsng your judgements.

Re: “I'm considering withdrawing from his support for school if he doesn't change or apologize to all that he has hurt and thats a long list.” I get your consideration, however, know that he can’t change, not with you in his life. Yobehaviore that his behaviour is acceptable. He pays you (your tuitions) so that you will keep interacting with him. You compromise your integrity by conning him into financing your education. My sense tells me that all that you will “learn” in school, via his guilt payments, will have to be relearned but on your own dime—unless you already intend to repay his loan with interest.

Re: “Additionally what his character is and what he has done doesn't help either (adultery, compulsive about pornography, relationships with others..). It would work for you to learn quickly that you are everyone, that which you can’t own as being you will come to haunt you. As an orphan I self-righteously promised myself to never ever leave my son without a father (making my own parents wrong) only to later divorce his mother leaving him to grow up without a father. The same goes for positions about fidelity and drugs. As Pogo said, we have met the enemy and we is dem. What we’re talking about is compassion; but it can’t come through understanding, such lessons are learned by making the same mistakes.

Re: “I'm not alone my half brother and sister nearly twice my age are in the same position with him. I spoke to them and they say confronting him won't work, they have tried;” "Tried" yes, because neither had any intention to resolve the issues. They too are stuck in blaming self-righteousness.

Re: “My sister said when he gave her some money she felt like that was his compensation for his actions . . .” This called trashing another—unless you know she has verbally communicated the same to him. It's also a blame statement.

Re: “. . . it was about time; she deserved it.” She’s stuck believing she’s entitled.

Re: “Do I?” Either way it doesn’t matter, it will assuredlyut as it will, most assurendly faster without you. What we can predict with considerable certainty is that if you continue using the same "Adversarial" communication model you’ve been using (coincidently the very same one your entire family uses) you’ll simply produce more of the same.

First thing you have to be willing to acknowledge is that you’ve been lying to yourself, saying that you don’t want abuse in your life. Each day I have a choice, H,mm, let’s see, shall I once again interact with _____ whom I know to be abusive or shall I hang out with someone who's loving and who admires and respects me? My point being, you've lost your ability to choose, consequently you’re addicted to abusing and being abused. Your Dad hasn’t destroyed enough relationships yet to be motivated to heal and it hasn’t cost you enough (in terms of aliveness and happiness, your very health) to be motivated to choose to have abuse-free relationships.

You might get value from The Water Pump Story and Responsible Estrangement.

With aloha,

Kerry

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:41 am

Hi gregorys90,

I deleted your second personal communication to me in a clearing post. Please reread and follow the instructions and the sample clearing.

Thanks,

Kerry

gregorys90
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:09 pm

Re: Our father

Postby gregorys90 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:37 am

Thank you very much Kerry this is a start I need.

So all that nastiness that I "got" My dad is addicted to the abuse/ing and controlling which has me being judgmental self righteous and blaming.

RE "Did I tell him" No, I have not told him verbally. I will.

About his guilt payments, there is a lease already with an Apartment and some commitments all ready in place. This is his way of keeping contact with me so your saying his problems will work out maybe just on his deathbed instead of sooner If I act.

I worry about my own fidelity and I had a dream a couple days ago that did haunt me. So please tell me more, I believe I can't 'own' being a cheat so this is going to manifest into that very thing? A type of Catholic priest thing with suppression of sexuality? If so, I need to accept that it is possible for me to do, or possible among all people. What about more serious things like murder, I judge that as wrong so with the same rule applied what is really going with me about that? I accept that their are murderers in the world. I realize that there are these people, and what I think doesn't change it? What about how I feel with the US Government being ineffective. They pass a bill to help 9/11 responders, that makes me angry. In accepting its being, does that empower the act or situation? I remember you saying something like in similar context to this " I let it be that way " Also could you expand this a little more, "What we’re talking about is compassion; but it can’t come through understanding, such lessons are learned by making the same mistakes."

And coming to you is me wanting to change and make that decision to not produce more of the same, and this has now cost me enough. I look back at how life was in Pahoa and to now and it is just shit. I refuse anything less.

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:54 am

Hi gregorys90,

Quick reply to "RE "Did I tell him" No, I have not told him verbally. I will." I don't recommend that you do it verbally, you'll only produce more of the same. You'll still be still using your adversarial communication model, ergo, accidentally, unconsciously, making him wrong. Best do the Spouse Abuse Tutorial first. Although the title reads "Spouse . . ." it's really for everyone. The point is, you'll drag this addiction to abusing and being abused into any/all intimate relationships.

As I recall from our "Natch" conversations, you have been traumatized to the extant that it affected your spontaneity even with me. Keep doing the clearing process, there's lots more hidden under what you've shared already.

I'll reply to the rest of your reply later today.

Kerry

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:09 pm

The rest of my reply to your 30 Jul 2011 06:37 am post.

Hi gregorys90,

Re: “This is his way of keeping contact with me . . .” Nope. Notice the unconscious blame? —how it leaks out without you even knowing it. It’s your way of keeping contact with him—you holding on to the shop apron strings.

Re: “Re: so your saying his problems will work out maybe just on his deathbed instead of sooner If I act.” His problems with you will either be resolved or they won’t. Most likely they won’t if you continue to interact with him. He has no choice but to act as he does based upon the way you interact with him. In other words, you are the leader. Simply being, or standing quietly in a room with him, triggers a Pavlovian-type of response. The simple fact is you don’t inspire him to seek out help in communicating with his family. Everyone does their imitation of communication with him so he can’t get how bad it is. It just hasn’t gotten bad enough for him to get counseling. If he drove everyone out of his life he might (but not necessarily) get that he alone did it. I say “not necessarily,” because the mind will kill itself, and take as many down with it as possible (at best laying a guilt trip on the survivor(s)) locked into the decision to be right and to making others wrong.

Re: “. . . I believe I can't 'own' being a cheat . . .” Are you willing to own that you’re as deceitful as the rest of us are/have been from time to time? Who in your life would say that they feel ripped off by you, feel as though you deceived them, feel as though the balance-sheet weighs more in your favor? That you have done such things does not make you a cheat. It simply means that you have at times cheated and have been deceitful.

Re: “A type of Catholic priest thing with suppression of sexuality?” Please don’t try to make a comparison. What I wrote is what I wrote, it’s absolutely nothing like “. . . Catholic . . . “

Re: “If so, I need to accept that it is possible for me to do, or possible among all people.” No. Responsibility dumped on another is not responsibility. You don’t need to accept—you can continue to resist the remotest possibility—it’s an option. Responsibility is a point of view, a personal choice. Most die without ever accepting responsibility for the effects they had on others.

Re: “What about more serious things like murder,” It doesn't work to introduce hypotheticals into conversations with me. We have enough on the plate already with your incompletes. Someone who drags such arguments (Notice that you already had your answer before you even asked the question?) reveals their addiction to avoiding responsibility for an incident in their life. They draw ones attention—smoke-screen-like—away from what they are hiding by introducing philosophical variables. Your question is the way your mind protects its reality.

Re: “I accept that their are murderers in the world.” Mo betta, [I realize that some people have murdered, furthermore, that give certain circumstances, I too could be driven to kill another.] It’s minus the self-righteous make-wrong. Most who have murdered say they were ignored and shunned by the "good" kids in school.

Re: “I realize that there are these people, and what I think doesn't change it?” On the contrary, your thoughts have been producing everything; it’s not easy to grasp such an out-of-the-box concept, but it works to be willing to acknowledge that we are energy, photons if you will, that we are an essential part of the whole. For more about this read: The God Effect and The Intention Experiment. (bottom-right-corner click on Recommended Publications).

Re: “What about how I feel with the US Government being ineffective.” Another irresponsible make-wrong. Get clear about the difference between feelings and thoughts.

Re: “They pass a bill to help 9/11 responders, that makes me angry. “ Notice again your automatic knee-jerk blaming. It causes others to dismiss your bitchings as sophomoric and worthless—except to those also addicted to blaming. I got the anger; however, what you believe to be the source of your anger ain’t it, therefore the anger persists. A problem persists because there’s a lie somewhere, tell the truth and the problem (your angry reaction that you drag around with you non-verbally into all your interactions) will disappear for you.

Re: “In accepting its being, does that empower the act or situation?” This is an excellent question. Relate to me the problem in your life you are referring to? Your use of the word accepting seems to avoid responsibility for having intended the result. i.e. AA’s mantra, “. . . grant me the wisdom to accept what I can’t change . . . etc.”Read: Definition of Responsibility.

Re: “I let it be that way.” I don’t recall saying that. The word “let” implies to resign oneself or to put up with as opposed to intend it. Read The Zen Master—dog-poop story.

Re: “Also could you expand this a little more, . . ." I repeat, it can’t be known except through direct experience." A TV series I like, Leverage, touts words to the effect that ex crooks make the best cops. Unfortunately Police Depts won’t hire ex-cons.

Re: “. . . is me wanting to change.” Unfortunately our conversations won’t specifically produce the changes you desire; what’s so is our conversations are simply conversations. If by chance some communication takes place between us then we’ll both find ourselves communicating consistent with our stated intentions. What will happen is that you will find yourself having choices.

With aloha,

Kerry

gregorys90
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:09 pm

Re: Our father

Postby gregorys90 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:07 am

Hi Kerry,

I just read as much as I could in the Spousal Abusive Tutorial. I didn't meet the requirements. The biggest one being I still talk to the abusive people in my life like my Dad which I'm trying to resolve. I haven't communicated with him in a week. My mother and Grandmother have a bad abusive relationship together, and I talk to both so Im in it too. So what am I to do now? Not communicating with him is still nonverbal contempt which he must get. What way of speaking/not is not adversarial to him?

I also couldn't take the tutorial out of assumption that I couldn't on this stipulation. Not smoking daily or for intimacy. I have but I do not smoke daily, I did with my family at the graduation party not the first time either. A majority of my family does smoke. While last month in Hawaii I felt too good to be bothered with it. When I was around people back on mainland with it I did. I didn't seek out to get it, I was ok when it came and went. I did yesterday get some for when my girlfriend returns. She has been interested in it ever since she first tried it while being in the States and likes it. I bought it for us when she comes back to make it the best return I could think of. It is not daily, but I don't see how I'm not connected into this or for intimacy. If I wanted to share a bottle of wine with her is this different? Social drinking is ok but not 'social' smoking? I believe drinking is worse and I'm adversarial about it I suppose. I don't tell other people that they shouldn't, or say make a big deal about why I don't. I for myself would rather not. It has been since new years that I did have a drink. How is social drinking not ahh can't remember exactly from the tutorial, " wanting reality to be different"

There is much more going on with your other post but just piece my piece so I can actually internalize it. To much at once obviously won't help.

Much Aloha

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Kerry
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Re: Our father

Postby Kerry » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:13 pm

Hi Gregorys90,

As the saying goes, “You can lead a horse…” There’s nothing more for me here except failure. I find it doesn’t work to interact with those addicted to abuse who continue to interact with abusive people. It's unethical to dump a problem one is unwilling to solve in a friend's space. One uses friends to solve a problem. It's possible that your mind is embeddeded in the therapy communication model; most therapists unconsciously intend that clients have the same abuse problem session after session; I on the other hand, communicate to disappear problems.

What I’m doing now with you is demonstrating what you’ll have to be willing to do with your family, else you’ll continue to dump problems in my space that you have no intention of resolving; it invalidates my worth as a coach and as a friend. Please no more Message Board posts until you can tell me you haven’t interacted with any of them for six months in a row. Read: Responsible Estrangement.

I recommend that you continue clearing. You’re getting the hang of using it to acknowledge current perpetrations.

Important Note: If you attempt to communicate to me in a clearing I will ban you from the Clearing Process Message Board. Simply pretend that it’s not me at the receiving end.

BTW: If you introduce your girlfriend to smoking I guarantee you the relationship will become a source of problems for you. Instead, get into some deep and profound communications with her, share all your thoughts, do The Clearing Process for Couples with her; it introduces couples to the world of true intercourse.

What would feel good is a donation to Community Communications.

With aloha,

Kerry


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