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Jerry Clark
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:20 pm

feedback

Postby Jerry Clark » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:15 am

Integrity.
We elect people, which we allow to do the wrong things, in order to enable us to get what we want. We ‘look the other way’ when dishonesty suits us. We have learned to sacrifice our values for easily obtained benefits. We elect people without integrity because we have lost our integrity, especially in our Constitutional roots. We practice lack of integrity (moral soundness) on a small scale while leaders practice their lack of integrity on a grand scale. The solution is for us, the voting American population, to practice integrity as a personal commitment and demand integrity from our 'higher ups'. There is no other way to regain freedom and liberty.
Imagine what life would be like if everybody was forthright and did the right thing all the time.
When rules are stretched routinely by individuals for personal 'gain', it is reasonable that those same people would accept political leaders to do the same for governmental gains. The result of continuing loss of integrity is chaos. The fix is by practicing integrity with ourselves, others, and life in general.
It is the concept of freedom that has allowed us to play around wastefully and irresponsibly with our liberty. Our carelessness is causing freedom to be endangered. Renewed integrity will allow us to regain what we have lost.
Jerry Clark, Vietnam Combat Veteran, a loyal American.

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Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: feedback request

Postby Kerry » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:25 am

Note to readers: Jerry wrote an article and I offered some feedback. Here's the pertinent coms.

12/28/09 PM
Hi Jerry,

I have some feedback for you about your "little paper" article. It's the kind of feedback/coaching that I would offer a client who engaged me to support them in communicating effectively. It's possible that my feedback will trigger upset and judgments, it's of value only to a person requesting it. That is to say, it won't be easy to read and be with without you pumping out an automatic knee-jerk reply so you'd have to agree to not compose a reply to me for 3-4 days. The mind protects its point of view and makes anyone who differs with it wrong. Being with (experiencing) my feedback for 3-4 days will give you enough time to process any anger/upset that might come up.

If you'd like you can register for my \newurl{http://www.comcom121.org/forums/index.php,Message Board}(free) and I'll post your article and then my feedback.

Jerry replied, "Yes thank you."

1500 hrs
Hi Jerry,

Thank you for giving me permission to offer feedback about your letter. As mentioned, some of what what follows will trigger upset. That's OK. The difference between this upset and others is that you will be choosing to experience the upset, to be with it, rather than immediately reacting to it. What will happen is that you will begin to observe yourself composing and have more choices.

First and foremost, your letter comes across as a self-righteous lecture. I don't know your audience but I'm assuming they already know they are letting others run things, and, that they don't feel good about it. Most believe they have a choice but at some level know they are powerless, that they simply have no choice. None, who, after reading your article, did anything toward the solution. It's neither inspiring nor uplifting. It's trashing self and others. It is an excellent example of talking as opposed to communicating. Talking produces more of the same.

Re: “We elect people, which we allow to do the wrong things,” Your use of the word “We” is a clue that you are not clear about responsibility. A responsible person would have written, “I elect people, whom I support in doing...” Also, it doesn't work to make any result (or others) wrong. To make another wrong is abusive. All of the results I have produced have been absolutely necessary so as to get to this place in time. Making myself wrong triggers guilt which means I have to set up life to as to produce the same result until I get that results are essential to learning and to making corrections. Children who were admonished time and again to be careful (usually with a condescending raised voice), never recovered from those invalidating interruptions, of possibly falling and getting up and through trial-and-error gathering motor coordination feedback and confidence and thereby succeeding.

Re: “We elect people without integrity because we have lost our integrity,” One cannot not have integrity nor can it be lost. One can be out-integrity on a particular issue but be in-integrity in other areas of life. Each of us operate at a different level of integrity. For certain, the integrity of some is so out that it no longer bothers them to say, speak condescendingly to their spouse.

Re: “We practice lack of integrity (moral soundness) ...” Integrity has nothing to do with moral soundness. It's best to not use words such as moral and integrity unless you are clear about their definitions. An educated person upon reading the first line of your article would go on to the next article because they'd know it was written by an uneducated complainer. The result you want from readers reading your article is not clear.

BTW: Integrity has to do with being whole and complete, nothing missing nothing added. If I lie than I've added something. I've added guilt. If I am overweight then I am out-integrity, I have added something. It might be OK for you to smoke whereas for me it is out-integrity. Adding smoke to an inhalation is adding something. If I steal then I don't feel good about myself (at least the first time), something is missing. For certain what's missing is the experience of integrity.

Re: “The solution is for us, …' The word “us” is more holier-than-thou lecturing. It's not a responsible statement. Your “solution” is simplistic. There is no single thing/practice that will produce the desired results. One can't practice integrity. What one can do is honor all agreements and support others in honoring theirs and thereby experience being in-integrity. Each day I do things that immediately create a condition of out-integrity, it doesn't feel good to myself or another. I open a letter and place it on the desk instead of immediately filing where it will eventually go. I end up handling it twice. For me this is out-integrity. I don't feel good when I notice that I have done it. I added steps to my day. I notice it and clean it up.

Your letter made others wrong. It's not nice to do that. It doesn't feel good to be made wrong, it's abusive, it invalidates another, and, most importantly, it's not karmically healthy for you. Your readers didn't request feedback as to what they are doing wrong. You didn't get their permission to offer feedback. It comes across as a dump. A dump is where one dumps a problem in another's space without having an intention to do anything about. There's nothing wrong with dumping, it's just not effective at effecting change. It does however empty the mind. Communicating a problem, which includes a viable realistic solution, is responsible.

We communicate for different reasons. For example: To empty the mind which doesn't require action on anyone's part. To share information which doesn't require anyone to take action. To change another's mind. To be right, to make another wrong, or to sound intelligent. And we communicate to produce a specific measurable observable result. The way to discover what your intentions have been is to look at the results you've been producing with your leadership-communication skills.

Lastly you're dumping words of wisdom into a paradigm that can only produce more of the same—trying to bailout the Titanic.

I'll stop here. Share your thoughts. Things you get just write “I get it. Thanks.” Things with which you disagree say so.

I'll look forward to your reply on or after 1/1/10.

With aloha,

Kerry

Jerry Clark
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: feedback

Postby Jerry Clark » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:41 am

I am ending this communication.

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Kerry
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: feedback

Postby Kerry » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:15 pm

Hi Jerry,

I trust you're aware that I offered the free feedback because I know that you and I went through “Hell Week” so I know you're capable of getting all kinds of communications and not quitting.

Re: “I am ending this communication.” I got that you're having an upset. However, your reply doesn't say what the first sentence was that upset you. That thought, that specific sentence, is what's referred to as an incomplete between us. Although it might look like I'm the one, that it was my thought, that caused the upset, what's true is the first sentence that upset you is a reaction to an earlier and similar interaction with another, someone whom you also dumped because you didn't like what they said. The challenge is to recall that incident, it presently serves as a barrier between you and the experience of communication, especially with your articles. The incident could be difficult to remember because your mind won't want to acknowledge that you treated that person abusively. A simple communication to that person, saying, “I got that I self-righteously blew you off and that it didn't feel good” will create space in your life to manifest your stated intentions.

For example: You were reading along and all of a sudden something I wrote upset you. That sentence is where we're stuck. It's not just that it triggered upset, it also triggered anger. You've been unconsciously dragging your first such incident, with its anger, into every interaction you've had since then, affecting all outcomes (with everyone) throughout your life. A conscious person can see it on your face. That's what happens when you have an incomplete; it serves as a barrier to the experience of communication between you and everyone else. You'll have no problem talking small talk with others, however, an astute conscious person will intuit that there are some topics they just can't mention around you except that you'll get upset, argue, invalidate them, make them wrong, and shut down.

A person who is clear (one who can converse on any subject without getting upset) will know in a nano-second to not mention certain subjects with you. It's an aura thing that you carry around; they don't know exactly what it is, just that you're bound up. Most importantly they'll know that it would be best to not interact with you because you're not yet committed to mastering communication, that you're stuck in “warrior,” and that there's no commitment to going through to mutual satisfaction.

In communication coaching jargon your, “I'm ending this communication” is referred to as playing take-away. You produced a result, your article, and then when you elicited feedback you shut down, taking your marbles and running away. In this case your article is a dump. You dumped beliefs in other's space without first running it by another for accuracy and gettability.

You should have written, "Kerry, I'm willing to read anything as long as it feels good and doesn't conflict with my views." Shutting down communication is called control—it's tantamount to hitting someone (with your words) and running away. Such behavior keeps others (including me) incomplete. It's not only rude, it's abusive. I say rude because if we were at a reunion and you said something and I just turned and walked away, you wouldn't feel good; it's rude to start a conversation and walk away. If you disagree with a sentence I said, say exactly which one, the specific sentence, not a humongous generalization, "I'm ending ..." (which implies that you disagreed with every sentence). It will require some critical thinking on your part. My feedback is designed to generate thoughts outside the box of usual conversations. Once you allow my feedback to sink in you'll find yourself writing and communicating more clearly, and, manifesting favorable results.

If you're going to kick someone in the balls, at least tell them exactly why, and, most importantly, rather than shun them for life, give them a way back into your life. For me with you it's simply that you're willing to be in open, honest, and spontaneous communication with me, zero thoughts withheld. Werner Erhard (est Training) would tell prospective employees, I'll paraphrase, "You can hit me, cheat me, lie to me, badmouth me, or steal from me, all such interactions can be completed through communication; the only reason I'd fire you is if you say, "I don't want to talk about it." Such is the power of control. It comes from fear of discovering that what you know and believe might not be true.

If you look you'll be able to find the first person who you treated this way, most likely it was a parent. That's the incident, the incomplete, that you don't want to look at. If you ask that person what it felt like for you run away from a conversation they'll tell you it didn't, and still doesn't, feel good. That incomplete runs you to this very day.

Another problem that gets generated by quitting our conversation is that it will be a never-ending-challenge for you to not communicate unfavorably about me to others. To do so would be badmouthing. Worse yet, if/when another does the same to you, you won't be certain whether it was karma—a consequence of how you treated me. This is a pattern we all have, of finding/manufacturing something wrong with others and keeping them at arm's length for life, and, of turning others against others (collecting agreement of how stupid, how arrogant, crazy or whatever), as opposed to becoming one with the other. Once all thoughts have been communicated between two all that's left is the experience of love.

Do you suppose that others who read your article had thoughts/feedback similar to mine but intuitively knew better than to offer you feedback? Who else in your life has determined that there is no space for communication to take place with you, that your mind is solidly made up with no room for opposing points of view, someone you've similarly dumped? Here's some help in locating incompletes such as unacknowledged teen perpetrations/abuses.

Do show this thread to your partner/spouse—experience tells me the resulting conversations will be of value to you both.

With aloha,

Kerry

PS. Check back from time to time, I usually reread my posts and make minor edits/corrections. (last edited 5/20/11)


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